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Finland Comes to England - Secondary

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Text Comments (52)
Finnish are a much superior race! English are such fools.
Irina Wojtiuk (1 year ago)
I believe it's not the Finnish teachers that are so good, it's their system. The girls are rude because the society accepts such behaviour. In Finland the school would probably work immediately with the girls and their parents trying to figure our why such behaviour takes place.
Kyn Chan (1 year ago)
Double science sitting on those hard stools. I can remember having an aching backside afterwards.
Marianne (1 year ago)
Oh my goodness. Is this how students behave in England? Wow, very different from Finland. On the contrary. We are too quiet sometimes. BUT I'm quite sure it's actually the fault of the "short activities", I mean why would you rush 10 tasks if you can do one really well?
Indian Skeptic (1 year ago)
The current generation of English kids seem to have to respect for elders.
Indian Skeptic (1 year ago)
I studied at a Catholic school in India. The nuns over here would have given me a hard pinch if I had behaved like these girls. We HAD to treat teachers with the utmost respect. The way these girls are disrespecting the teacher is UNBELIEVABLE!
BRIAC ROA (1 year ago)
Without the cameraman presence students's behavors would be more worste. Let's put hide camera and everybody could be able to see the REALITY.
Kyn Chan (1 year ago)
In our day there was the cane. The moment it touched flesh IQ points went up by at least 30 points for a few hours after.
Kyn Chan (1 year ago)
You're certainly right one size does not fit all. (Not one person is truly useless in reality.) People have different strengths. Some people are exceptionally gifted at specific academic subjects and others express their brilliance with manual/practical types of activity. School tries to cater to all these with emphasis on academics. This is probably not the best way but it is the government way. Austism spectrum disorders and dyslexics account for very little of the total student body thankfully. Luckily, we know about these problems now and can do something about them if slowly. There will be alternative learning mediums to help. (We have a massive problem with funding. Its not likely we will ever be able to provide an assistant to each different type of learner. Significant help must come from the parent and professional help.) For the majority of people the emphasis falls back on the student and also a little on the parent. Parental discipline was mostly harsh in my day. Respect was very important and still is. Teachers emphasised that it was not only what we learned at school but what we did at home that would determine how well we would perform. There was always that pressure to do well. I remember struggling with certain concepts in maths but was told "if the first one is hard, what happens if you keep going through example after example to get to the 30th one, how about the 100th, will your maths improve?" Of course. "If you give up on your first one how do you get to your 30th?" So practice, learn, practice etc was what kept us going. "If there is just one thing I can teach you, just one thing." I listened hard to the headmaster. "It is not to give up. No matter what happens, you do not give up. Learn to work very hard, develop your willpower and keep going example after example." I know the above still applies whatever age we are in and whatever school we go to. That is not taught. Unfortunately, experiencing some hardship is required to really appreciate that we are far more powerful and resourceful than the low expectations most of us lapse into when feeling too comfortable. We had the discomfort in beatings, losing privileges, being forced to volunteer and being forced to compete academically and physically in sports. Nothing was made easy.
Marianne (1 year ago)
You're right about the spelling, pain tolerance and attention span. But every student is different. Take a kid with Asperger's, they would go mad if they had to experience physical pain every day at school. Spelling has got worse with the students because of Whatsapp, the text messaging application, I'm pretty sure. People have short attention spans nowadays because they jump from internet, to live conversations to whatsapp discussion to sharing a video on snapchat... But it isn't because of schools or teachers. Also, take Finland for example, the students respect teachers there and every student is equal in every way (everyone gets free healthy lunch, attention from teacher, accepted during the works in groups, free books, and schools offer computers and different kinds of spaces to work in....)
Kyn Chan (1 year ago)
Now, it's some years since I left school without having to write very much so my English has got so much worse. But it was excellent during school with few punctuation, spelling and grammar errors in long 5000 word essays. Many of today's students can't even string a sentence together without making some stupid mistake, never mind a long essay. I'm told education is better now than it has ever been.
Kyn Chan (1 year ago)
Work under pressure we did. Not only did Maths improve but English writing, memory, discipline and physical endurance. I'd say we were far more disciplined than most of today's students, had far longer attention spans and a far higher pain tolerance.
Marianne (1 year ago)
IQ doesn't measure your intelligence or ability to learn. IQ measures your ability to work under pressure and do tasks that consists of tiny little branch of mathematics, deducting what picture comes next. Which basically measures how well you can notice what the given shapes have in common so that you can reason the supposedly next shape/picture. Plus, there are different kinds of intelligences... numbers, logic, language, social, intro, spatial... and a few more... It's sad that people are told they are stupid because they score low in "IQ test". Everyone is born with a couple of gifts to those kinds of intelligences and certainly everyone is able to learn more. Everyone can learn mathematics if they want to and if they are told they can.
Kyn Chan (1 year ago)
Make them run 3 miles before lessons. They'll be far calmer and more alert.
MsJavaWolf (1 year ago)
Of course they behave like that. Who really wants to do that shit?
Robstar (1 year ago)
she should tell those kids that lungs are part of the burger !!!, I wish to see their reaction lol....they loud and with a lack of respect, parents fault obviously.
Yska Arvihide (1 year ago)
I dropped out 16 times from a higher school education system until one day I went to a school that ask me to design my own day. I said no Maths and Sciences for me and instead I want to fill my days up with humanities subjects like Ancient and Modern History, Journalism, Photography, English, Theatre, and Ethics. Because they don't have Russian language, I was allow to enrolled in a language school and study elementary Russian. This is spread out over a 5 years duration so I don't do all subjects at once. For curriculum I took Dance, Art and Fencing. Within a year I was transformed from being angry and bored to too being too busy catching up with subjects I am actually interested in. In short, schools have little respect for students interest forcing them to study subjects that they are not interested in. While Maths and Science are important, not everyone wants to be architect or a NASA scientists. I believe after having being forced to study subjects I hate, I believe the Department set teachers out to fail. It is a classic examples of pumping teachers full of theory hoping it will work mentality, instead there is no real understanding of student's need wants and motivation. Teach them the basics but don't expect to pull a wool over their eyes either. It was this school that saved my life. Teachers have the right to be 'loco parentis' but not at an expense of the students' intellect and freedom. If you dare ask any students to choose their favourite subjects, those students that do not want to be in your class will not be there, and leaving those that truly passionate about what you have to teach- to be there. Class sizes are smaller and all you are left are student who are passionate about your cause. So please don't go down the road and say " but that is important..." because what was important to my teachers' eye was definitely not the best of my interest.
Caroline Wiggins (1 year ago)
There is a quick shot of them eating snacks.  They are allowed to bring junk food to school in the UK.   All the crap they are eating doesn't help concentration either.  Should be like in Japan where no sweets, chocolate, snacks or anything similar, even fizzy drinks are allowed over the threshold of the school.  Why is it so difficult to introduce rules like that in England?  This is depressing.  I had forgotten what my own country was like, having lived abroad for so long.  And to be rude and stupid on camera too!  Does nothing embarrass these kids?
Marianne (1 year ago)
The students are allowed to drink water and eat snacks in Finland, but not that many do that. Some teachers actually recommend eating snacks if students have many hours of school in the afternoon. They do get the free and healthy lunch every day but if they have school till 4pm they are going to need some food. There should be enough time to eat snack during the breaks but sometimes you need to take the sandwich or protein curd or snack of their choice (in my school for example, there's a Study Cafe). Anyway, the biggest problems with the British school were the "ability groups" (I mean, everyone is *able* to learn things! They just need a better way to learn it!). You can't label people and say "you're in the lowest group" "You're in the groups where only stupid people are". And second problem was that they are used to doing short tasks so it doesn't even require good concentration. They just finish tasks as quickly as possible without thinking what they are supposed to understand.... It would be way better if they didn't rush 10 tasks but did 1 task where they put their mind and soul (well not soul maybe) into it.
Caroline Wiggins Finland has the same rules, unless there's a special occasion.
jack7997 (2 years ago)
is it just my impression or in this documentary people are actually trying to learn something from the finnish, unlike the newer one with the chinese teachers. the impression i got from that one is how the chinese system would never work in england, and that there is nothing to learn from them.
jack7997 (2 years ago)
and that was first day, with a foreign teacher, tv camera... i wonder how bad it gets on normal day...
yesi king (2 years ago)
rude girls
Alex Grant (2 years ago)
It seems like the Finnish teachers build very good relationships with their students and are able to build their lessons around them. I wonder if using Finnish techniques for longer with teachers who know the pupils would be different? I'm from New Zealand and I have watched testing in our schools increase exponentially and I wonder if it is a hinderance to learning.
TheFernando9999 (2 years ago)
The systemic Approach would make this classes even more effective !!
ES (2 years ago)
i think a big thing that i had when i went to school was that if u couldent behave in school then the teacher would just throw u out and say comeback the next day...then u lear when u are thrown out all the time that how silly u look and that u are just an asshole ruining class for everybody else.
hopefullyw (2 years ago)
can't they bring a finnish teacher who is good in English?! This is ruining the experiment!
Paul Vicente V Curimao (2 years ago)
she already forgot how to teach during her early days in Finland. It was during her early days that they set the changes and results had happened. I think, this is something the Finnish Teachers should re-learn, how to teach in an environment where everything seems hopeless. I think they already forgot how to teach with that kind of environment because they are so much more revered in their country. However, in fairness to her, I think she will be able to reverse the children's thinking if she would be given a year to teach there. I see some instances where she was indeed a product of the old Finland system.. More passionate. More adaptable. and More determined to make sure the kids learn.
Ari Takalo (2 years ago)
Paul Vicente V Curimao well Finnish system is a system as whole. Frankly the country is a system, but deliberate system. Finnish result aren't miracle or accident or because "Finns are expectional". Finns had hopeless children, guess how you make hopeless children learn better, by making them not hopeless. but it takes large chances. Finland didn't change it's education system. Finland changed Finland to fit the new Education system. Frankly the whole damn country is build around the education systems, because few basic facts were understood. like "children are the future" and thus no amount of effort (not money, money is easy, effort is harder) is too much to ensure children's future. So whole Finland changed. Secondary and high education paths were changed, healthcare was adapted, the country largest nutritional program started (free hot full meal for every student), wellfare system adapted etc. The whole society was changed in a decades long program to ensure "future". So Finnish teachers don't deal with hopeless children, because whole of Finland was changed (absolutely intentionally and in a pre planned fashion) to make sure that wouldn't be an issue. It is a package. Finnish education and Wellfare state come hand in hand. One can't just pick one, because student wellbeing is big part of education in Finland. Which means whole family wellbeing is part of education indirectly. which means wellbeing is education in Finland. They are inseparable.
Mi Feke (2 years ago)
Is there one with an English teacher going to Finland to teach and see the difference? That would also be interesting.
Erik Emerölduson (2 years ago)
It seems like the children of the "lower abilities" classes were not taught manners and discipline by anyone... God, I would be constantly throwing shade and insults to that class if I were that teacher...
Veikko Tikkanen (3 years ago)
wow, completely restless kids. Teens are teens, but this is already disturbing. I dont know how to have good results with a material like that
Vaidoteful (1 year ago)
Finns by nature are much more quiet people... they are very respectful and teach their kids that way. I think that they simply do not have such major behavioral issues.
Novusod (1 year ago)
Nobody gets $30,000 a year in the US. That $30,000 is usually broken down into other things. $6000 goes to subsidized housing credit (waiting list for this takes years) $5000 goes to Medicaid $4000 for daycare if you have a kid $3000 in food stamps $3000 goes to education / retraining programs $2000 to cover heating / electric bills What is left over is $400 or $500 per month. There are also work requirements. If you don't look for work and give proof of employer contacts then you can be thrown off the program and end up getting zero. There are lifetime limits so people end up getting kicked out of the program if they are unemployable. The truly destitute end up living on the streets where they either end up dead or turn to crime and go to prison.
Crown (1 year ago)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/05/04/the-average-us-welfare-payment-puts-you-in-the-top-20-of-all-income-earners/#44482ab8316f From what I could find, in Finland you get about 25 euro a day, in the US you get 25 dollars a day. Seems to be pretty scattered since I also found that in Mississippi you only get about 150$ a month. But then I also read that you can get 30.000$ a year - in the US.
Novusod (1 year ago)
No job, no problem in Finnland. You get welfare for life. In America no job = either starvation or prison. Thus we have the school to prison pipeline in America. Many kids only go to school until they are old enough to go to prison.
Crown (2 years ago)
The Finns deal with it pretty good. You fuck up you don't go to school. You don't go to school you don't get a job.
iani1051989 (3 years ago)
this is so disturbing....
arjay2002ph (3 years ago)
@ 18:24 stupid students really. too much democracy destroys values. :( she will enjoy teaching in my country the "philippines" we are obedient to teachers and give respect when they are teaching. : )
S. B. (2 years ago)
Thanks very much!
MsTiK (2 years ago)
+peperudi An article that may explain some things: https://fillingmymap.com/2015/05/06/learning-by-doing-11-essential-lessons-from-finlands-craft-education-classrooms/
MsTiK (2 years ago)
+peperudi I am not a teacher. I don't remember too much unruly conduct from school and teachers deal with it in different ways. And I guess freedom in the class room means that the teacher can decide who they teach their subject and even what they teach about it. Freedom in general means that kids are allowed to make decisions for themselves, both parents and teachers usually trust them, unless there is some kind of a problem.
S. B. (2 years ago)
+MsTiK Please explain what "a lot of freedom" means in a Finnish classroom and how you deal with unruly conduct. I'd very much appreciate your reply, esp. if you are a teacher. Thanks!
MsTiK (3 years ago)
+arjay2002ph In Finland children call their teachers by their first names, and actually children are given a lot of freedom, too.
Priscilla Williams (3 years ago)
Wow, I was very surprised to see this. I live in the USA and we, here in America, often look to English schools as examples. The student's behavior is worse than in the USA. These girls are rube, silly, stupid, and think they are posh. I have never seen such behavior and the make the UK look so bad. I feel sorry for this Finnish woman who probably couldn't wait to go home. So sad. I blame the parents for their ill manner children.
Marianne (1 year ago)
No, it's not the parents. It's the system. 1. The "ability" groups (more like the label groups... it's the stupidest idea ever, Finland would never allow that). You're supposed to find a spark inside every student, and support their growth in the subject, EACH ONE IS ABLE to get better. You can't say "you're in the lowest group"... The student shouldn't feel they are stupid and can't learn. 2. The inspectors (!?!?!?!? what the heck), you aren't trying to show off that you're the greatest school of the world. You're trying to help EVERY student to learn their subjects. Every student is important, not just the best ones. You have to give the teachers freedom to help everyone. 3. Short tasks. No wonder if the students don't concentrate when they have to complete tasks so fast. They tasks should be way longer and the kind of that requires thinking, not just finishing as quickly as possible.
Shina Cohen (1 year ago)
Priscilla Williams
Ari Takalo (2 years ago)
Priscilla Williams actually the Finnish woman was probably constantly analysing what was wrong in the system, to cause the teens to behave like this. Because Finnish child is no different to English, Asian or African child. the children are not the problem. it is the systems and constructs and societies around them. if society teaches teens to miss behave, they miss behave. if society teaches kids to be respectful, they are respectful. problem is respect goes both ways. Finnish students respect their teachers, but in return teachers respect student. it is a two way street. trying to make it single way is going to end badly. You see kids get to for example partake in planning the course, they have a say often. how do you want to be evaluated, test, multiple test, course project etc. Teachers ask student opinions and thus show respect for the student and student respect teachers for their professionalism and respecting them. of course teenagers are gonna teenage, it is a fact of life. them being energetic and moody is taken as part of life for Finnish teachers. so you work around it, because teenagers ain't gonna change any time soon. which mainly means keeping lectures short enough and giving enough break time to let the kids socialize and burn off energy. otherwise the teens are going to socialize and burn of energy in the class. education is kids work, but it is not employment. so one can't just apply work place or military discipline. well one can, but it will lead to horrible learning results. learning is a developmental and biological process. so sometimes you have to do weird and counter intuitive things (like teach less) to accommodate for those biological and mental factors and get better learning results. trying to force biology to "what is efficient" is a sure way to fail. biology wins that right always.
Priscilla Williams (2 years ago)
Hey, thanks for the reply and the information! I'm fascinated by the education systems from different countries and (like most Americans) I kinda assumed England had the BEST education system. Images of well dressed English kids in country-side schools is usually the only image of British schools that we get here in the USA. Britain is painted as a Utopia you have no idea :-) American kids tend to be somewhat "enchanted" by Europeans/Scandinavians more than people realized. We live so isolated away from so many countries like France, Germany, Finland, Sweden, etc. A foreign guest is usually treated with much curiosity and interest and respect.....and usually bombarded with questions about their home country. But, overall, I think the decline in education is happening worldwide. Some people blame the the lack of moral training in children these days, some blame the government system, while others blame immigration, the teachers, or parents. I think everyone is pondering the same question....
NewhamMatt (2 years ago)
It really varies depending on which school you're at.  Nowadays London state schools (I can't remember if they're called public schools or comprehensive schools now) have a notorious reputation for poor behaviour, whereas the private schools tend to have better reputations.  This is, of course, a huge generalisation.  A great book I read that was written by a teacher in a London state school is Katharine Birbalsingh's "To Miss with Love".  It's an eye-opening study of her year in education, and how she feels teachers are working with one hand tied behind their backs.
jkt (3 years ago)

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